Advanced Delineation

gwynne: You were born Aug 22, 1955 at 4:01 AM EST 5

gwynne: correct?

Pam: Yes

gwynne: and you have 28 Cancer rising

gwynne: Uranus on the cusp of the 1st

Pam: That';s correct

Pam: That's ME

gwynne: Jupiter/Venus/Pluto/Mars/Sun in Leo conjunct

gwynne: from the 1st to the 2nd house

Pam : That's alot isn't it?

gwynne: Mercury in Virgo in the second..

Pam: That's all correct.

gwynne: Moon/Neptune in Libra in the 4th and Saturn in Scorpio also in the 4th..

Pam: Yes

gwynne: North node in Sag...in the 5th

Pam: yes

gwynne: Chiron in 7th house...opposing Uranus...and Chiron is in the sign of Aquarius..

gwynne: now that we got that out of the way..

gwynne: This is a reading which will focus on PLUTO issues

gwynne: You are an astrologer, correct?

Pam: Yes, I am a beginner status though

gwynne: Well...I think you do pretty well for a beginner...after reading your work during my class
Pam: Thanks, sometimes I surprised myself

gwynne: As I understand it...you made some significant confrontations of your family on the Pluto Square Pluto Stellium in your chart..

Pam: I seemed to just know things sometimes

gwynne: correct?

Pam: Boy, is that correct.

gwynne: Uranus in the 1st brings spurts of tremendous change in your presentation...

gwynne: and you are connected to Chiron healing..in the 7th..in your profession...

Pam: Yes, I am a registered nurse

gwynne: another statement of that is the polarity of Moon/Neptune in the 4th opposite the 10th..

gwynne: We are going to focus on family issues here..however..

Pam: okay

gwynne: and Plutonian/Sexual issues..that will be part of the family make up

Pam: It has had more of an affect then I realized

gwynne: Sexual power/triangulation/and control...were things you were raised with from day one..correct?>
Pam: yes.

gwynne: The ruler of your 4th house Libra...Venus is conjunct Pluto

gwynne: Venus conjunct Pluto..conjunct Mars..

Pam: There was always a jealousy from my mother

gwynne: meaning it was a struggle for you to manifest your own healthy sexuality...in regards to your natural pubescent development.

gwynne: The triangulation with your mother..and the ultimate betrayal come from the Moon/Neptune in Libra..in the 4th

gwynne: You were set up in the family to be the sexual scapegoat

Pam: YEs, she would make me feel very aware of my sex, telling me that I could ask my father for things she could not.

Pam: I truly believe that is correct.

gwynne: and there are deeper issues around the males in the family...hence all the acting out...with fire signs..and the sexual planets in Leo..

gwynne: Was abuse connected witht his stellium?

Pam: Yes, none of the males get along at all

Pam: I believe it was connected with the stellium

gwynne: How did abuse manifest itself in your family?

Pam: The sexual abuse was from my oldest (10yr) older brother.
Pam: The emotional abuse was from the manipulative behavior of my mothers

Pam She's is very good at making one feel guilty

gwynne: What about your father's emotional incest...???

Pam: Yes, I understand. He always relied on my decisions

pam: He certainly put me in the place of his wife in that respect

gwynne: and what did that do to your mother...his wife...?

Pam: I Think that made her more jealous and very angry

gwynne: and how did he get along with your brother...

Pam: She has made the comment that he treats her much better now that I am out of the picture

gwynne: ??

Pam: My father has always been very domineering and opinated, he doesn't think much of his sons at all and lets them and everyone else know it.

gwynne: so they acted out their sublimated power issues on you...or at least one of them did?

Pam: At 50 and 48 I doubt they have ever heard my father tell them that he loves them

Pam: Yes, and I believe he carried it over with some of his own children

gwynne: your older brother?

Pam: yes

gwynne: May I have his birthdate?

Pam: I believe it is July 30th 1945

Pam: I am not sure of the time or place

gwynne: I am looking..hold on

Pam: okay

gwynne: What I am seeing about him...is the connection with the mom...

gwynne: what is your understanding of his relationship with your mother?

Pam: He has always been closer to my mother, in fact both of my brothers are. IT's alittle hard to explain but I will try

gwynne: that is okay..

gwynne: first I must tell you...something

gwynne: that your brother's Venus..is on your South node

gwynne: so your molestation ...is a karmic situation with that brother..
Pam It doesn't surprise me\

gwynne: and you have also been twins..in past lives..with him..

gwynne: he has had several connections to you...

gwynne: He deemed you his property...

Pam: I have wondered about the karmic ties. I have felt that I have a twin that has always been missing

gwynne: from the very beginning..

Pam: Yes, he always called me baby sister and still does

gwynne: So he still does not view it as abuse..

gwynne: and does not see the wrongness of it all..

Pam: One or the other would always follow me on dates when I was a teenager

gwynne: The whole family was in collusion with the set up...

gwynne: Your father is the one who could have changed the whole scenario...

gwynne: but that is not why we are here..

gwynne: Your mother was weakened by your father..

Pam: I think inside he knows it was wrong, however, I
know you are without a doubt right on the money

gwynne: and you have the power and control..like your father..

gwynne: only you are heart felt..

Pam: Yes, that is true

gwynne: and understand the depth of the karma with this whole family...
Pam: YES, and don't want to repeat it

gwynne: By confronting them all...you have allowed for them to be released from further karmic influences..

gwynne: Pluto totally rids you of the WASTE OF KARMA

gwynne: And you have the power now..to see this in other people...

gwynne: and get them to work out their fears of this..

gwynne: in their lives..

Pam: I am glad, I know that family and karma is a big factor with me. My husband and twin girls have the same ascendant I do

gwynne: Your family had an hypnotic/Plutonian affect on you..

gwynne: and you have broken that spell

gwynne: in a big way...

gwynne: but you needed the Plutonian energy to do it..

gwynne: Pluto is a powerful healer..and once healed...it never returns..

gwynne: It is like major surgery to move the whole CANCER

gwynne: understand?

Pam: I do understand and I have described it like having a cancer removed and the area filled with light.

Pam: The control my family had was incredible.

gwynne: You still have your family to heal...though...as they will come back to you..in time..

gwynne: You are now in a transformed condition...that they need in order not to die...

Pam: I feel that is true. I am not sure how I will handle it when they do

gwynne: or they may chose to die..and work out their karma...without you...

gwynne: we don't know about that..

gwynne: You won't say anything..

Pam: I know my parents come to me in my dreams often
since this happened

gwynne: because they will have to live with this trauma..for about 6 mos..

Pam: You are right I most likely will not say anything.

gwynne: before the effects seap in..

gwynne: Silence..is Golden in this respect..

Pam: That is the time frame I expected. I know they have much to work through

gwynne: What is your relatioship with your older brother right now?
Pam: I also know that they must be able to do without making me feel guilty as I can not accept the guilt.

Pam: We do not speak

gwynne: when was the last time you spoke..

Pam: In fact we haven't spoken much in the last 8 years.

gwynne: ??

Pam: In would have been sometime after July 1994 and
March 1995

Pam: We have never been a close family and he will pass my house on the way to my parents and not stop

gwynne: what was that conversation...

Pam: In was a very brief one about his going to AA

Pam: He had started and was doing well

gwynne: good...

gwynne: when he molested you was he drunk?

Pam: No he was sober

gwynne: How often did it occur?

Pam: I did tell him about my dad wanting to kill mom but he wasn't concerned

Pam: It happened twice that I can remember, then I just refused to go into the bedroom alone with him. After that we were never close.

gwynne: Did he force you or use any abusive actions.....

gwynne: or was he loving?

Pam: It was a bit of both

Pam: He would tell me he loved me but tell me it was my fault

Pam: He also told me that mom would be upset if I told her

gwynne: I think that act is horrid...but I think what has affected you at a much worse level..is the triangulation with your mom and dad...

Pam: At 8 I was very gulliable

Pam: I absolutely agree

Pam: It has been so difficult to deal with them and I recieved no help from either brother

gwynne: And the brother..was very wrong...and you were fortunate that it did not occur...frequently...

gwynne: Are you sure that your father was never inappropriate with you?

gwynne: physically?

Pam: Yes, I know. I can see ways that it did affect me but I realize it could have been much much worse

Pam: not that I can remember

Pam: I know he always put me on a pedistal

gwynne: You have to realize that I work with sexual abuse daily...and have many clients who suffer Multiple Personality Disorders..because of it..

gwynne: that is not to minimize you...

Pam: I understand. I have seen multiple personalities in my father big time

gwynne: but most people do not have the strength in their charts as you do...which is both good and bad...it brings that kind of energy...toward you..but it also gives you powerful energy to

gwynne: withstand all of this..

gwynne: and heal from it..

Pam: Sometimes my emotions run the extreme and I feel like it may be an inherited thing

gwynne: with no looking back..

gwynne: no

gwynne: But you and your father have got to come to some peace..and agreement..

gwynne: before his death...

gwynne: do you know how that might happen?

Pam: I believe we will. I feel it has been my mother's feelings that has kept us at odds.

gwynne: she is weak

gwynne: weak willed..

gwynne: and martyrd

Pam: Yes, he passes by my house on a daily basis and I know one day he will be standing at my door

Pam: She is very weak willed

gwynne: He is possibly obsessed

gwynne: so she doesn't have the strength to do anything..

Pam: I think he might be

gwynne: He has ALL THE POWER IN THE FAMILY..

Pam: She has no strength at all and I for years held that against her

gwynne: How does your husband interface with him?

Pam: He is very much the power in the family. My husband always got along very well with him until. However it was a comment he made to him that was the spurring force for me.

gwynne: and what was that/

gwynne: ?

Pam: My husband does not argue with him and doesn't feel the next to exert himself territorily

Pam: The comment concerned our daughters and the fac that if we aren't home we do not allow them to open the door. He told my husband he was huts

Pam: He has verbally attacked my daughters in the past so I guess this was the last draw for me

Pam: The girls are 13 and under orders to open the door to no one. This comes from my fear that something may happen to one of them

Pam: Somehow I have never felt comfortable with my father being alone with my daughters and mom rarely leaves the house

gwynne: Has your father ever been inappropriate with your girls?

Pam: Only verbally. AT the age of 8 ( my God look at that ) he called them pigs and tons of other names because one pointed at a cookie on top of a cake
Pam: We did not speak for 2 months after that.

gwynne: Does he lose his temper with them?

Pam: I did tell him exactly what I thought of him then. He came an apologized to us and swore it wouldn't happen again.
Pam: He loses his temper with everyone

Pam My husband was the exception until this incident

Pam: My husband and I consulted a psychologist once about him and she asked us the same thing. He has never been diagnosed but I believe he does

gwynne: He may have intense mood swings..that are brought on by a chemical disorder...

gwynne: I do think he is capable of hurting your mother...if she ever stood up to him..

gwynne: she has to be sick/martyrd..etc..

Pam: That is what I believe. Sometimes he is fine and then his face changes completely. Yes, I know he could do her harm

Pam: He has already thrown a knife across the kitchen at her. But when I told her what he said on numerous occasions about killing her she just ignores it.

gwynne: My hunch is that he is a closet manic depressive...and his episodes..have some connotations..of seizures..which will eventually be strokes...

Pam: She does believe that he changed some medication bottles a few years ago and that almost cost her her life

gwynne: they are tied into each other...she is a masochist..

Pam: Yes, they are so violent I can believe he will have a massive stroke one day

gwynne: I am glad you have made the choices you have...about confrontaiton..\

gwynne: It may have saved your life...

Pam: I have always felt theirs was a karmic tie. That is why they put up with each when they seem so miserable

gwynne: in many ways..

Pam: I feel that and it may have saved that of my daughters as well

Pam: It took so long for me to speak my mind but I feel so much better for doing it

gwynne: Your mother would have been an alcoholic...if she did not do her sick thing..

gwynne: and she has such abandonment issues herself..that she would sell her children to the devil..so that she could not be alone...

Pam: I think that is true, she is violently opposed to alcohol and in fact put a line in the letter to me about alcohol and I don't drink
Pam: Yes, she is so afraid of being alone or being put in a nursing home

gwynne: well...she is closet case..

Pam: I believe that is true

Pam: I know she has many secrets that we have yet to discover

gwynne: One of them is about her own heritage..

Pam: She had many problems with her own father

gwynne: Did you know your grandmother?

gwynne: maternal?

Pam: No she died when I was 3 months old

Pam: They say she was very religious and a kind woman

gwynne: Could her mother...have possibly been someone else...???
Pam: I don't think so as she really looks like her, but I have wondered about her father

gwynne: or of course she was raised by someone else...

gwynne: Her father...is very questionable..

Pam: There were 7 sisters and brothers and she was the one he delighted in putting down

gwynne: There is a criminal element..in there..

gwynne: and I cannot figure that one out..

gwynne: How did her mother die?

Pam: Could it be along the line that she may be the product of rape?

Pam: I think from a stroke, I know she died in the hospital but it has always been a closed subject

gwynne: possibly...

gwynne: was your mom the only child by her/

Pam: I do know that it was a second marriage for her father

Pam: No she had four sister and two brothers from the same mother

gwynne: this may never be figured out..

gwynne: but it is a great deal of skeletons in the closet..with the Moon/Neptune..in the 4th..

Pam: That's the truth. There is just so much

gwynne: revolving around MOM..

Pam: I know I have seen a picture of a dead baby boy, laying in a coffin in her album

Pam: She finally after much harassing told me that it was her baby
Pam: She never told me how, when, where she had him

gwynne: Do you have any questions about your chart... or what we have talked about..???...

gwynne: This has all been very interesting...

Pam: No, we have certainly convered alot

gwynne: and we could go on forever guessing about all the family secrets..

gwynne: Do you see how I got the information..other than what you have shared..previously..???

Pam: I can't believe an hour has already passed. Yes we could but that gets us nowhere

Pam: Yes, I do see how you got it

gwynne: Do you have any questions?

Pam: The 4th and 10th houses have much to say about mom and dad

gwynne: yes

Pam: No But I do have to say THANK YOU SO MUCH

gwynne: and the ruler of those houses are tied into the Venus/Mars/Pluto..

gwynne: so that is a continuous restatement..

Pam: You have been so accurate, probably more then either of us will ever really know

gwynne: Well..I will edit this...and send it to you...

Pam: Thank You again I hope this will help someone out there

gwynne: and I again..I want to thank you for being brave..and helpful..

gwynne: to others...

Pam: Thanks for allowing me this chance

gwynne: Love to you my dear...and love to your husband and daughters...

gwynne: Keep in touch...